On Thursday of this week the Ontario government will be once again voting on the future of “Bully-Type” breeds. Today I wrote a letter to my MPP, I emailed it but also intend on sending a hard copy. I encourage everyone living in Ontario to do the same.
Below is a copy of the letter I wrote.
If you want Breed Specific Legislation removed from Ontario, this is how democracy works for us.
Please write your MPP here: http://bringbackthebulls.com/index.php/messages-sent-to-mpps
Dear Mr. McMeekin
In two days Bill 16, a new bill to replace Bill 132 the Breed Ban legislation against Pitbull-type dog breeds in Ontario will be once again be brought to a vote. As my MPP for Hamilton-Ancaster, I am counting on you to speak on my behalf to eliminate this ineffective and prejudicial piece of legislature.
As a professional dog trainer that travels the world giving lectures on how to shape dog’s behaviour, I can state with a great deal of authority that yes, unfortunately there are a very small percentage of dogs that, often through encouragement from their owners, are made to act aggressively towards humans. Those are specific cases of specific dogs owned by irresponsible people who should be prosecuted.
A Bill such as the one defining the legislation we currently live under does NOT protect Ontario residents from such dogs. Bill 132 unfairly targets ALL dogs of a particular phenotype implying the physical characteristics of a dog is a predictor of the potential threat they pose to humans. This is no more true then suggesting you can detected human assailants by the colour of their skin or shape of their head.
There has been no drop in the number of annual dog bites in Ontario since Bill 132 was introduced in 2005. It is time we dissolve Bill 132 in favor of Bill 16 and move forward. I would love to see Ontario become a world leader introducing effective legislation that prosecutes the true criminals, the thoughtless dog owners that are allowing or even encouraging their dogs to bite other people. I would like to offer my professional expertise as an internationally respected advocate of positive dog training to help contribute in any way I can. I look forward to seeing future progressive legislation that will not punish the “look” of a dog but rather “act” of it’s negligent owner.
Bill 132 needs to be over turned and the proposed Bill 16 make sense as it’s replacement. As an Ancaster resident I am counting on you to be my voice on this critical piece of legislation. I thank you in advance for your reply and I, as well as my 16,000 social media followers, look forward to your reply.
With Best Regards
Susan Garrett
Say Yes Dog Training
Alberton, Ontario
www.clickerdogs.com
www.susangarrettdogagility.com
Today I am grateful to all that join such a worthwhile cause, these dogs need a voice, please lend them yours!
OK, this is a “outcry” for you to realize its NOT the BREED that does the “so called damage” among us. ITS THE BREEDING IE: inbreeding, not concerned of bitch/sire offspring & MOSAT IMPORTANT, ITS THE ENVIREMENT THESE “SO CALLED DANGEROUS BREEDS” ARE SUBJECTED TO. get A grip, tis not the breed, its the OWNERS INTENTION & BACKYARD BREEDING THAT jeopardises this AWESOME BREED of DOG. Don’t BLAME them, BLAME YOURSELVES
Strewth what a lot of feedback and discussion.
In NZ, people are our biggest killers especially with our under 5 year old children.
As far as dogs go, I’ve trained GSD’s, a short coated broad mouthed cross breed, a heading dog and am helping an 80yr old friend with her staffy. She (the dog)truly is the smartest dog I’ve known, followed closely by the short coated, broad mouthed boy. The staffy used to be labelled as an aggressive dog but with IYC, crate games and some good ole positive socilaising, she is turning into a star. For me, it’s all about the training not the breed.
Good on you Susan for bringing your regional issue to international attention.
TorachiKatashi
AMEN !!’
Kim , I thank you for posting this article because it is a wonderful example of a lot of the confusion concerning the so called Pit Bull breed . I find it to be a very confusing , contradictory article ! The person that wrote it can’t seem to come to any conclusion .
Wonder how many Dogs that are called Pits are really Pits?
I bet most of the Dogs called Pits , that are owned by undesirables or that are running loose , have NO papers & are mixes !
Kim, “improved enforcement of existing laws” (last paragraph). That hit the nail on the head of the article..much like everything else…if we just enforce the laws already in effect. Good article, thanks for posting it!
Here is a unbiased scientific look at the data available on pitbulls and dog bites.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4288
Debra, you are right about cars, but it may not be a moot point since it clearly demonstrates the innate behviour of humans alone. We do license people as a result. Maybe we should consider this with dogs, which as you point out are worse, because they amplify what we are, in addition to all being inherently dangerous when untrained.
Hmmmmm…Richard that’s a good idea if what I’m reading in between the lines…a dog does amplify our own character in what we want or like in a a certain breed.. :o} Food for thought! LOL
Cars have no mind, character, innate desire, etc…so really that is a moot point, Richard! I so agree with you about educating adults and children about dogs. Hope it works out for you. roz, I agree with you on the abuse of this breed in the USA and everywhere else in this world. Education and common sense is the key…
And fast cars kill and injure far more people sadly.
Debra “musculature and drive that has been bred into this breed is very different than a collie biting, a dachund biting, a husky biting…”
Actually all have lead to death of a child in recent cases so I am not sure I can agree with you on this if I consider the results of bites as the measure. Human skin is very thin and any dog who is not trained to hold back and uses biting to scare away something, or someone it is afraid of will cause serious harm to anyone. Same for any dog of any size who is truly aggressive. There are lots of stats to back this up. An aggressive Jack Russel is a very scary and dangerous animal, for example, and I can name many scary examples.
Death is serious risk? Yes things can be more gory and a dangerous PitBull is truly dangerous, no argument there, but how do you get worse than death? Way more people have been killed by other breeds, in Canada at least. All dogs should be considered dangerous unless in the hands of a trained person imo.
Training should be mandatory. Maybe even passing a test, like a driver’s license. That would be fair and protect far more people.
While you are at it, since we have 40% of homes with potentially dangerous untrained animals in them, maybe we should train everyone in school early on about dogs? That would be fair and probably protect a lot more people?
Vehicles are dangerous and we don’t ban the fast ones either, despite the fact that they are built to break the law.
Just a few more thoughts.
Thanks all for any help on this 🙂 and sorry for hogging the space. Thanks for your support Susan 🙂
Debra, my Pit loves other dogs but her socialization started at 12 weeks ! Dogs fighting dogs has been going on since there have been dogs . I know a well know trainer who’s arms are scared from breaking up her own Goldens from fighting ! As long as a dog has an ego there will be fights . There are very few dogs that are totally predictable !
The abuse done to this Breed in the USA is horrible !
I liked the last 3 posts , they were very informative !
Susan I agree with you totally the true criminals are the humans who have encouraged their dogs to bite. I think it would be way more effective to have more strict laws against humans and their mistreatment of animals on a whole. Hit them where it hurts right in the pocket book……..and some serious money in fines………and I believe all this money should be filtered back into the system for animal welfare! When this law was first set my first thought was what breed will be on the chopping block next? Kudos to you for offering your professional services as well………how many others like you could step up to the plate but choose not to.
The only scars on my arms are from a Border Collie, but I choose to discriminate against the circumstances and not the breed, or dogs in general.
And I think the point by Roz is important. Most breeders do not breed American Staffordshire Terriers/American Pitbull Terriers for dog fighting and have not for many years and those that do are criminals.
I am not a criminal, but I have been unfairly treated like one in an attempt to protect people from those that are. That seems wrong in principle.
The Charter of Rights and Freedoms (in Canada) protects us all from just this when the police want to barge down our door and accuse us of a crime we may not have committed. We have the right to be innocent until proven guilty.
This is not the case with BSL.
And if people are turning dogs into weapons, or fighters (and of course they are), then lets attack them together and stop that nonsense. Breeders of purebred Am Staffs are very hurt by this purpose for breeding, just as the Staffie breeders and lovers in the UK are being hurt now by those that abuse dogs.
I am not one who thinks we should give up our responsibility or our accountability for our actions or those for whom we are responsible (dogs or children). And in fact I fight for accountability and responsibility of anyone who wishes to own a dog and if you cannot accept this? You can’t have one! IMO 🙂
Every major reputable dog and veterinary association I know of, including the AVMA, has spoken out against BSL. It is typically a result of legislators bowing to public opinion, fueled by media and speculation, not actual facts and sound information. I fully support dangerous dog laws, but breed bans DON’T work! I don’t know how many times I have seen a news story about a vicious “pit bull” and it’s a mixed breed of some kind, often with no resemblance to the APBT. I owned an APBT, and I believe I had a huge responsibility to my dog and the breed. She loved people more than any dog I have ever owned. Pit bulls were NEVER bred to be aggressive towards people. In fact, quite the opposite. It is absolutely true that many can be dog-aggressive, Just like many other dogs and breeds. It is unfortunate that many people choose a dog and are irresponsible with it, but banning a breed or phenotype of dog won’t correct this. You can’t fix stupid. They’ll find something else to be stupid about.
Debra , you said ” The American Pit Bull Terrier was (and still is) bred for dog fighting” ,,,, anyone who is breeding for Dog fighting , is breaking the law and can be prosecuted !
In my town of Memphis Tenn , where this is done , you can go to jail !
It’s a crime against the Breed ! Sad sad !
Richard, I can see how your heart strings are pulled with your love of your Staffie Bull Terriers. My love is the Border Collie and I would feel the same if it was banned and incriminated against. Laws many times forget common sense and just give a broad term law without thinking. The problem with our society is no one wants to be held accountable for their actions or for the child or animal they are intrusted with. Unfortunately those breeds who are bred to bring down prey, fall into those hands that have no common sense to keep them away from things that stimulate that innate desire; but allow them to self reward to destruction…and another law is formed…and those humans who are kind to the breed suffer for it.
Let’s hope and pray a common sense way will be found to protect both human and breed.
Debra , I think living in the country is a good thing , I wish I did . What I meant by what I said is , with so many in your area , I wondered if they were used primarily as guard Dogs ! Breed discription say they are so people friendly , they make poor guard dogs . I’m sure this can be changed if people set their mind to it .You know make them aggressive . If they are bred to fight, someone is doing the wrong thing .The original purpose of most dogs has changed over time , take the Ridgeback for example . I do know if a person doesn’t take time to socialize a Pit , they can be dog aggressive . My daughters BC also has aggression issues toward dogs .There is always two sides to a story and if a Pit is a biter ,,, I would want to know the other side to the story .!
My apologies Debra you are very right about being nice. Mine is an opinion along with some fact as well. Unfortunately, unlike you, it is me and my dogs that are discriminated against. I have been banned from competing in the AAC National Championship 3 times with my Provincial Champion and CKC Agility Champion. I have the most wonderful dogs in the world and Staffie Bull Terriers absolutely love people and have no record of violence or aggression toward people. We are banned from Ontario without just cause. Forgive me for being a little emotional. I know the truth, I live with them.
Absolutely agree everyone has a right to their opinion. I only wish to change a few to believe that every breed and every dog presents danger and every owner needs to be accountable. I also would insist we have required education on dogs and would like to see dog owners licensed over dogs.
I know there are dangerous pit bulls, but BSL does not do well for other reasons.
Staffie Bull Terriers are not banned in the UK, and as a result they are now being bred and owned for the wrong reasons, replacing the Pitbull and now their reputation is now becoming the same as the Pitbull when it was not before this change in ownership. The breed itself has not changed, I know because I am immersed in them. Still see the same great dogs with great owners! This is what BSL is doing for Staffies in the UK.
I see a breed becoming vicious again before my very eyes and yet all I see is a change in ownership and why and how the dogs are bred for that new ownership!
The same pattern of behaviour keeps repeating…
Roz & Richard, We all have the right to our opinions via life experience, educational degrees, etc. Yes, I live in the country…is that bad? You don’t have to agree with me, but politeness and kindness goes a long way! :o} The American Pit Bull Terrier was (and still is) bred for dog fighting. It’s also true they were bred for fighting animals like: Bears, Boar, Badgers, Donkeys,Lions and Tigers long before they began fighting dogs. I’m sure most of them are people friendly, but let’s face it, Pit Bulls are not dog friendly and should never be left alone with another dog, except with supervision. Yes, they can be socialized to dogs, cats, even ferrets..but never alone with them. If you have read the history of the American Pit Bull Terrier, I’m sure you have read the above. Doesn’t mean they aren’t a beautiful breed specimen, they are – they reek of muscle power, they were bred to take down large game and not give up till it’s down.
Part’s of our military has had to look at possible banning of the American Pit Bull as there has been incidents of attacks. Military housing is very close to each other and adults and children walking their dogs are suceptible to these attacks due to the Pit Bull being unfriendly to other dogs. Yes, you can say “Well my Pit Bull lives with another dog and doesn’t bother it”…that’s a moot point when it comes to the many dogs it encounters that it doesn’t live with. I stated I sincerely hold the handlers accountable for their dog who attacks any other animal and esp. a human being. I stand by my opinion and I respect yours.
um, no. Debra Jones: your history is completely wrong.
There have been dogs that fought other dogs, since the beginning of dogdom. These dogs were of MANY types, even before there were “breeds”. There were dogs specifically bred to focus on bullbaiting (basically catch/hold job for the butchers). Bullbaiting was also a “sport”. Dogs have been used to hunt almost every other animal, for food and for sport. Big dogs were used to hunt big animals such as lions. Small dogs were used to hunt small animals such as rats. Fast dogs were used to hunt fast animals such as rabbits. People enjoyeded watching dogs fight scary animals like lions, annoying animals like rats, or food like deer and rabbits. I’m not aware of donkeys ever being an object of a fighting sport.
The creation of “breeds” in the mid 19th century led to lots of creations. There were several bulldog and terrier mixes, used for vermin hunting and for fighting each other as a”sport”. The “American pit bull terrier” was created in the USA after the Civil War and standardized in 1890. Since there are no lions or tiger in the US, they were NEVER used for that purpose. Donkeys? no. Wild hogs.. yes, but much later in their history. Cougar.. no. They were indeed bred to fight other dogs in the pit.
The primary registry for the APBT in the USA disavowed dogfighting about 50 years ago. And the AKC version of the breed, called the AmStaff, was almost never used in the pit, because the dog fanciers explicitly wanted the breed to be accepted as a family pet and companion. There has never been a proven purebred UKC APBT or AKC AST implicated in a dog fatality or major bite incident.
Many many breeds/types of dogs, and of course many individual dogs, don’t like other dogs, and can’t be left alone with them. Indeed, most terriers have that characteristic. So what? There are some people who shouldn’t be left alone with certain other people, too.
None of this justifies condemning any individual dog solely by its appearance. Of course there is some correlation between breed and behavior, because behavior is part of what makes a breed. But behavior cannot be predicted by appearance and it is grotesquely unfair to place restrictions on a dog or its owner solely because of appearance. Either the dog’s or the owner’s. In the USA, the crime of “owning a pit bull while black/hispanic/poor” is sadly alive and well.
Emily, I disagree with you that my history is wrong. What I stated came from an avid lover of the American Pit Bull who definitely knows the history of this terrier. But one thing for sure we all agree that this breed is unfriendly to dogs…yes many breeds are, but the character, musculature and drive that has been bred into this breed is very different than a collie biting, a dachund biting, a husky biting… very different. Yes, all those who love the breed should step up to the plate and start educating…and begin with the historical fact of the breed and come to the present. I’m ending my conversation on a light note. We all love our breed of dog and should take every precaution of keeping it safe and the animals and humans that it comes in contact safe… thank you for allowing me to express my opinion! :o}
Great discussion, thanks for sharing your views everyone, certainly a lot of great ideas that can be implemented. I love a discussion that doesn’t just point out faults but offers up solutions!
Quite frankly (and I have read the law many times), I find the law hypocritical, regardless of whether or not there is a true genetic difference.
Bill 132 (now the portion of the Dangerous Dogs Act bill 16 seeks to overturn) based the logic of the law on genetic and genotype and banned American Staffordshire Terriers, American Pitbull Terriers (defined by UKC) and Staffordshire Bull Terriers (no record of violence against people in Canada at all) and “Pitbulls,” which they later had to remove as this is not a breed).
Then they proceeded to ban dogs based on phenotype. How this logic held up in court is beyond me, but it did.
Isolated individual incidents are not basis for genetic discrimination, only that that particular dog had problems.
This same story (Debra) is repeated with every breed including a Dachshund in Ontario. I believe there is still only 1 pure bred American Staffordshire Terrier (genotype, not phenotype) pitbull killing in Canada and that was drunk guys taunting a pair of dangerous dogs.
To compare, there are far more shootings by black males between 20 and 30 in the USA, but that does not mean we make a genetic link from the violence to the genetics?
You would be called a racist if you did! This is no different and very sad that people cannot see this discrimination.
Thank you for your support and taking the time to write.
Dogs need to be judged on their behaviour NOT their appearances. There are good and bad dogs in EVERY shape and size.
I dont think that the people out there that have their pitbull type dogs for their macho appearance really care about a breed ban. I can tell you they are still being bred here and at the same time too many families have had their INNOCENT dogs taken from them and destroyed.
I think Debra Jones needs to clarify a few things .
What is the HISTORY behind the dogs that were biters ?
Had they had only one owner & what kind of people were
They ?? It sounds as tho she lives in the country !
Are these true Pits ? AKC says a lot of these large breeds
Weighing over 70 lbs are mixes NOT Pits . Why are there so
Many so called Pits in your town ? Are they pets or are
“They raised as guard dogs ?” Do these dogs have papers ?
I read most of the above comments and can understand both sides. We had a 2 year old girl in our little town killed by two pit bulls, who were in their yard, but got out just to attack her as she was playing…no teasing going on etc. Just recently a woman was mauled by a pit bull and now in critical condition. Officer shot the dog as the dog began attacking him. I had a loving elderly couple who owned a pit bull, very sweet as long as the couple was with you. My oldest son loved to play with the dog, but the dog got more aggressive as they played. One more incident last year up the street from where I live.. two people were riding their mules down the dirt road. Two pit bulls ran up to the mules and began biting them…luckily the owners were able to call them off…
I believe the bill should narrowly specify the breed, not just a “smooth coated broad skulled dog” That’s ridiculous. I believe owners should be held accountable to the end of the letter, but I also agree with SKY on the genetic behavior of the breed.
First of all, I’d like to know exactly how all the dogs in the stories you mention (none of which you offered any kind of proof of reference for, by the way,) were confirmed to be purebred American Pit Bull Terriers.
Would you feel the same way if for 2012, Border Collies were the flavour of prejudice for the year? If every “vicious dog attack” (most of which are minor scratches) were reported as being perpetrated by Border Collies, not from any kind of proof, but simply because the news paper says they were? I guess that would mean Border Collies were all “genetically predispositioned” to be aggressive, right?
I don’t have a high enough number to count how have “vicious Pit Bull attacks” I’ve seen on the news, but I can count on my two hands how many I’ve seen that included a picture of a dog that actually looked even remotely like a “Pit Bull.”
But let’s assume just for a second that you do actually have the UKC registration numbers for all the purebred American Pit Bull Terriers you witnessed during these attacks.
Wouldn’t you, as a Say Yes student, understand better than most that the actions of those dogs was entirely the fault of the owners, not the dogs? Did you miss all those webinars where Susan talks about not blaming the dogs?
Anyone who knows ANYTHING about American Pit Bull Terriers, knows that it is in that breeds genetic predisposition to never, EVER be aggressive towards a human. A Pit Bull who is aggressive towards humans is as natural as a Border Collie who hates to work. Any Pit Bull who was aggressive towards humans was worthless to a dog fighter since he could not be trusted with his family, or be safely handled to, from, or around the fighting ring. Fighters had to be able to reach into the ring and grab their dogs without fear of being bit. The best fighting dogs went home at night to sleep with the owner’s children.
I know all this is falling on deaf years, though, as prejudiced people will live and die being prejudiced (I often wonder what other minority groups such people are prejudiced against that they aren’t quite as vocal about…)
If you’d like, though, I’d be happy to recount the instances I have witnessed in person of purebred Labrador Retrievers attacking humans.
Great information Susan. Great post.
Great letter Susan, I hope they see sense!
Thank you for writing this Susan. 🙂 It really means a lot to me and my broad-skulled, black and tan dogs! (even my red and white pointy, eared, pointy headed dog appreciates that you are sticking up for her big brother and sister!)
It’s very odd these anti Pit people , want give there names
S.K.Y. & wewe ????? What’s up with this ?
Please make the humane choice and judge animals as you would want your own beloved pet judged. If dogs are aggressive or uncontrollable, then they deserve consequences. But please don’t judge them based on their appearance.
Why label dogs by breed? I’ve been bit by numerous tiny breeds, chase by numerous small breeds, never once a Pit Bull or Pit Bull mix. I know quite a few Pit Bulls, all have been trained and loved by caring animal loving people. Some irresponsible people ruin it for all. Let’s educate as many as we can about training and how to read dogs. Thank you Susan for using your voice in the matter.
Tonya
Every single Terrier breed was bred to attack prey of some sort?
Hmmm?
Has SKY been bitten or anyone in his family ??
My guess would be yes. When I was bitten by a Border Collie though, I did not fear Border Collies or Dogs. But I did think twice about the circumstances that lead to my being surprised and bitten.
And I adore many, many Pitbulls despite having been bitten by a Border Collie, most from rescues, including my own who had been beaten, ditched to fend for herself at 4 months and wild for at least 2 as they tried to catch her.
Yes it took work, but she is no danger to people now.
http://youtu.be/Ko31JbdgrrU?hd=1
Funny though; I have met Staffordshire Bull Terriers who were aggressive!
In shelters and rescues after living in unimaginable circumstances. Neglect and abuse are dangerous in these breeds, programmed to love people by genetics, they do not react well to meanness, abuse, or isolation.
Owners!
Why won’t SKY , identify himself ???
SHE does on Susan’s FB page.
Anyone who thinks Staffordshire Bull Terriers should be banned by BSL for their danger to humans is demonstrating complete lack of knowledge of the breed.
Met thousands and never yet met one who was naturally aggressive towards people. NEVER!
Amen!!!
and yet in the USA, the SBT is included, by name, in all breed bans.
In the UK, the SBT is one of the most popular dogs. The APBT is banned as part of the Dangerous Dog Act. The APBT descends directly from the SBT.
BSL is completely irrational.
It is funny you post this to your blog this week as there was an article in the Sunday Windsor News on chihuahua’s addition to Windsor’s Dangerous dog list for biting a teenager.
Here is the link to the story:
http://www.windsorstar.com/life/Pint+sized+pooch+danger+city+declares/6173705/story.html
I will warn you the owner of the dog exemplified some typical small dog owner behavior in the article that could upset you as it did me.
The other interesting item in the article is of the 15 dog’s on Windsor’s list NOT ONE is a Bully breed. Trust me there are Bully Breeds in Windsor.
Just goes to show you: It’s the Deed, not the Breed.
When will human beings stop realising their egos, thru animal manipulation? BAN BAN, BAN
And if you want a few facts that seem to counter what has been stated above – there is a little evidence to support dog bites have not been reduced in Ontario by BSL.
A wealth of info can be found here.
http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/
I have read a lot about behavior (also one step from a Ph.D.) and aside from my own experience with dogs and specifically Staffies, Pitbulls (who have never bitten me and Border Collies (who have bitten me) etc and the Law of effect and ABC’s etc and most behaviourists would not likely support your theory that genetics has much to do with fight or flight, or their behaviour (Antecedents-Behaviour-Consequences)?
When in their genetic history were they bred to attack people? The last decade or so as they became popular due to BSL and sensationalism? Prior to that, dogs who attacked people were culled by owners and breeders. This would mean they have no genetic nature to attack people.
And what about Staffie Bull Terriers? They have never been bred to attack people and actually are very fond of people by genetics, yet they are also always banned!
And what about the Huskies and the Dachshund’s that kill or attack people?
Do Do I think there are pitbulls who cannot be saved? Yes I do. Do I think there are those that are dangerous? Yes absolutely I do.
Do I think other breeds are as dangerous? Yes I DO!
My rescue Pitbull was attacked by 2 BOXERS, 2 Rottweilers and a Poodle/Spaniel cross and not once did she bite back!
And here is my second comment removed from FB:
One more comment: Current research disproves that “negligent owners” cause dogs to be aggressive. In nature vs. nurture, it’s about 80-90% genetics and 10-20% training & socialization. My last two Border Collies show this anecdotally. Dog “A” was from a top, very “ethical” breeder. Breeds one litter a year, both parents have CHIC and even some extra tests, all passed with flying colors. Parents are both ROM dogs with titles at both ends. Aunt was national winning obedience dog with several 200’s. Puppies were socialized well and taken to outdoor shows and given treats by passers-by. I got “Dog A” at 13 weeks old, and he was so pathologically shy and fear aggressive that I had to quit work for 6 months to socialize him. We worked on this 10 hours a day–everything from walking in downtown areas to visiting state fairs and going on speed-boat rides. He was hand fed (puppy’s choice, no going over threshold, etc.) by 3000 strangers during that time. Massive socialization has been kept up his entire life. Has 27 titles in 6 sports, including many HITs. But at the age of 9, would still like to bite virtually anybody he sees. Is controlled solely by split-second obedience to my commands (clicker trained) and massive management on my part. His 14 siblings (2 breedings) are all either dog- or human-aggressive or both, and two were permanently kicked out of AKC for biting judges.
Dog “B” was born behind the trailer of a drug addict / hoarder / BC puppy miller. At weaning, he and his sibs were put in a distant chicken-wire crate and visited once a week and fed one can of evaporated condensed milk. Breeder was raided by the police when Dog “B” was 15 weeks old (but the size of an 8 week old). He was found in a cage of 5 dead (starved) and 2 live littermates. His sire was lying dead of starvation in the yard. From there, Dog “B” was taken directly to a puppy mill auction house and put in a cage where he was fed/watered automatically, with no human contact. I got him from there. However, he was so riddled with contagious parasites and diseases, he couldn’t go outside my isolated country house for the first time until 6 months old. Did this puppy mill rescue dog turn out shy? Hah! Unsocialized? Hah! He was the most loving, life-of-the-party, sweet and fun BC of all time. Loved men, women, kids, kittens, birds, horses, sheep, etc. Offered all his feet for nail trims, then wanted me to do them all again. Did agility and obedience. Loved judges, and they loved him. Became state champion in combined sheep/cattle points, but could be left loose and unsupervised all day with loose sheep, chickens and ducks without touching a hair or feather. He used to hold sheep all day for 80+ competitors, put on a trick show at “halftime,” then go cuddle with toddlers for a few hours until it was his turn to compete.
After having owned dogs A & B, I didn’t even need any evidence to show that it’s all about genetics… not the amount of socialization. But research agrees with me and shows just that.
Would you say I’m a “negligent” owner because Dog “A” wants to bite people? (Despite a lifetime of training, socialization, board-ceritified dog behavior consultations, etc.) And that the puppy mill hoarder was a “responsible” owner because Dog “B” had such a stable temperament?
How about Best Friends animal sanctuary? They’re pretty responsible, right? They took some of Michael Vick’s dogs–dogs that may not have ever fought in their lives. They had $18,000 per dog to rehabilitate them. Yet one dog, while still in their care, chewed through a chain link fence and killed one dog, then chewed through a second fence and almost killed a second Vick pit bull. Hmmmm, could it be that dogs bred for fighting might just have some “fighting genes”?
I am a geneticist, and there are few traits that are heritable at such a high rate of 80-90%. Where do you have those numbers from?
Also, but two dogs are hardly statistical, but rather anecdotal.
You mention that all the puppies are showing aggression, but you do not mention the behavior regarding aggression of the parents or grand-parents, which could indicate, if it was high, that genetics could play larger role than the environment (I am writing “could” since this is still not statistical). However, if the breeding lines showed aggressive behavior, then breeding those lines would in my book not be responsible or ethical, and you say that this was a very ethical breeder. So this seems to me rather contradictory.
Best regards,
Karin
Well said Karin!
Since you removed my comments from FB, I’ll try again here. But first, a few credentials: I’ve been competing in dog sports since 1977, a positive trainer since 1995, and my dogs have performed on national TV in 5 countries. I have an M.S. in Zoology/Animal Behavior from the U-Wisconsin (quit just shy of a Ph.D. from the same dept. where Patricia McConnell did hers). I worked for 5 years as a dog behavior consultant and expert court witness, specializing in dog aggression. Back then, I was generally on the side of the Pit Bull, but much experience + better statistics made me do a 180 a few years back, and now I’m totally in favor of BSL.
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Susan, I would have agreed with you 10 years ago, but ALL facts and research points to you being wrong on this. BSL does work: http://blog.dogsbite.org/2010/06/cities-with-successful-pit-bull-laws.html. As far as targeting “dogs of a particular phenotype,” that is a crock. Pit bulls do have a particular phenotype, but it’s their brain that is to blame for their high levels of aggression.
Border Collies were bred to work as a team with humans, to be sensitive to body motion, to run for miles, to have good chase instinct… but without bite/kill instinct. This makes them a great, tug-driven and athletic agility dog. It is totally hypocritical to say that breeding Pit bulls to do nothing but KILL for 150 years (a huge number of Pit bulls are still bred for fighting in 2012)… has zero bearing on their temperament? They’re the “nursemaid dog,” right?
For anybody who still believes that, I highly recommend reading these articles: http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com/2011/06/vintage-pit-bull-photos-prove-what.html (particularly the Fourth Point), and http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com/2010/08/nanny-dog-myth-revealed.html. Pit bulls were NEVER considered a nanny or nursemaid dog historically. Staffie breeder, Lillian Rant invented this concept herself from thin air in 1971 with no historical basis of any kind.
It is a FACT that as of the present day, Pit Bulls in America KILL somebody every 21 days. They seriously MAIM somebody–to the point of losing a limb/eye/nose/ear/face–every day on average. (See http://www.dogsbite.org for peer-reviewed scientific research backing these statistics).
I’ve tried to follow the anti-BSL bandwagon, like you, but all evidence is pointing to Pit bulls being genetically dangerous. (Not every one of them, but enough that I certainly don’t want to walk me or my dogs past one). Pit bulls and Rotties are not even in the “top 10” most popular breeds in the USA, but account for 73% of fatalities, and the vast majority of serious bites.
While some Pit bulls are people-friendly, and a smaller number are dog friendly, it is unacceptably risky to have a large, muscular dog–bred for 150 years to kill–and having “super canine” athletic and jumping ability to be walking on the streets with adults, kids and other pets. If my BC or Papillon were to get really mad, somebody might get a small puncture wound–more likely an air snap. If a Pit bull gets mad, somebody is gonna lose a face, an arm, or their life. Is it fair that I have to walk past a yard with a dog that can easily jump a 4′ fence, and is known to keep attacking even when shot full of bullets?
Pit bulls are NOT like other dogs. They have been bred specifically to: 1) ignore calming signals from other dogs/humans and attack dogs/humans that do not want to engage them, 2) to never quit fighting even when the other dog/human gives an “I give up” signal, 3) to have an extremely high pain tolerance, 4) to give almost no visible sign that they are going to attack (i.e. no growling, lip curling, air snapping, etc.) When this is combined with a large, powerful and athletic build, this dog has no business being kept as a pet or anything else. Please check out this video of a sports Pit bull in Brazil to see the physical feats that a Pit is capable of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RebXZCL62E&feature=fvst. Particularly look around 0:50. Would you like a dog bred for 150 years to kill coming through the air at your head? Your child’s head? Your own dog? How can anybody defend against this when even pepper spray and a hail of bullets have been shown to have no effect on Pit bulls.
P.S. Another interesting fact is that U.S. police kill at least 1200 Pit Bulls every year to stop them in mid-attack. When’s the last time you heard of even ONE Golden or Brittany needing to be killed by the police?
S.K.Y. I did not remove any comments from facebook they actually are still there. Just scroll down the page to see it.
I appreciate your input, my problem though is with the way the current Ontario Bill was written. Any “smooth coated, broad skulled dog” can be ceased and euthanized regardless if they have shown any reason to do so. We need to encourage responsible dog owner ship where owns of ALL breeds are held accountable for the actions of their dog and someone with a Lab-cross doesn’t need to worry that their family pet can be taken and killed just because the dog happens to be a “smooth coated, broad skulled dog”
Those dogsbite people are rather sad, actually. First of all they are from the US so haven’t a clue about what happens here.
Secondly, they haven’t any facts or evidence to back up their outlandish statements about the non-breed, ‘pit bulls’.
Which is why most people ignore them, because attention is what they crave.
S.K.Y.
I understand some of what your saying, but most breeds at some time were used and bred for some type of hunting. Now we as humans should use common sense in raising any animal. It is common knowledge in humans and animals that you are what your taught to be. If I was beaten on a daily basis you bet that someday I would hit back. As far as you saying that your little dog would only cause a small puncture wound. I was bit by a small dog that almost killed me with blood poisioning because of a puncture wound, so size does not matter. I was also attacked by a 6lb cat that had a brain tumor, no fault of its own and it too put me in the hospital for 2 weeks. I could not defend myself against it and I am not a small person. In other words it kicked my butt…I breed, train and show Labrador Retrievers and I am an advocate for any breed of dog and all animals subjected to the cruelty of humans, by their hands and by their mouths. We need laws that punish the humans who train their animals this way not laws that discriminate against a breed or a look. Go to a dog show talk to breeders, meet their dogs, and you will see it is not the people who care about their animals it is the lowlifes of the world out to make a buck or just have some type of wacked out fun. I can assure you that if you took any dog and raised it to be a killer it would become a killer.
anyone who quotes and cites from dogbites.org is automatically either a moron, a liar …. or both. That site has NO credibility and is run by someone with an agenda against “pit bulls”. Her sources are primarily newspaper accounts (notoriously inaccurate) and the OTHER discredited “researcher”,Merritt Clifton
http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogblog/2010/03/the-truth-behind-dogsbiteorg.html
There IS a reputable site whose authors do actual research with actual facts.
http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/
Thank you Susan Garrett for your letter and your support for legislation that would actually protect people.
Thank you Susan for taking the time to change bad legislation. My agility dog for 8 years is a rescued pittie. He is the best dog!! I often thought about coming up to camp for some training but wouldn’t risk it due to the laws in place. I hope they listen.
I believe very much in fighting for the safety of people and dogs, but that requires education of all dog owners and non dog owners about the true nature of dogs. Fight or flight is not unique to a breed, nor a species for that matter and puts us all at risk.
BSL hides the true issues, lack of knowledge for example, and gives people the false impression of safety with other breeds, which in fact puts them in danger.
I urge everyone to support Bill 16 in Ontario. I would love to bring my dogs to Ontario once again and prove what great dogs Staffies and Pitbull Terriers can be. I have friends and family and AAC agility I would like to enter Ontario for and I cannot do so without everyone’s help.
My dog’s are great dogs; I put great effort into training them and I think about everyone’s safety always. And I won’t go anywhere without them.
Thank-you Susan and thank-you to everyone who can stand up and help fight for fairness and safety.
Richard, Stevie Ray, Dylan, Jimmi and Joey
I have Pit , and she is the most affectionate dog I have ever seen . All she wants to do to people is lick them to death ! This is too sad ! Dog fighting is big business in my town ( Memphis ) people steal Pit Bulls from cars and our shelters . God does not like what men are doing to this breed !
This is the most substantive letter of it’s kind, Susan. I sincerely hope the powers that be listen to what you have to say. Pitbulls are amazing dogs – smart, athletic, and a ton of drive. Drive is a powerfully positive quality if directed through appropriate and positive channels. When abused or misdirected, it becomes a problem, but that is true for any high-drive breed. The pit bulls I have known are amazing dogs. And, honestly, I have met more aggressive Australian Shepards, another high-drive breed, than any other breed. I expect that this is because the owners adopted them for their cuteness and had now idea of their amazingly high need for physical work and cognitive challenge. It is the responsibility of the owner to research the needs of their dogs and to seek help when signs of aggression arise. I agree with you, Susan, that it is the owners who need to be held responsible for their dogs’ behavior. And, in some circumstances, prosecution for negligence or for actively encouraging aggressive behavior in their dogs.
I couldn’t agree with you more! There are so many good dogs out there, and a few bad owners. Thank you for taking this up with your MP.
Not concerned directly as French but this is an international cause and so often the experts are not consulted. Your letter says everything. I hope it will be listened. Fingers crossed for Ontario
This is a great letter, Susan! I hope that Ontario listens to experts like you on this matter.
Thanks for being a great advocate!
With the great news coming out of Ohio, I sincerely hope that Ontario will quickly be following suit.
Fingers, toes, eyes, and anything else CROSSED!
I agree with Ashley!
I would hope to rid our laws in both the USA and Canada of any breed-specific legislation moving forward in 2012.